WHAT IS TRUE FRIENDSHIP?

[Renaissance]

I'd like to see what the rest of you have to say about this before I make any comment:

What is a true friend?

[guest_of_logic]

There are various types of friendship, but a "true" friend is one who is willing to make sacrifices for you, even to suffer for you. That's also the way to tell whether someone truly loves you: if they truly love you then they'll be willing to suffer for you. This doesn't mean that they would make sacrifices or suffer for no good reason, only that they would do so in the case that you require it or in the case that it would help you out a lot. Parents often make great sacrifices for their children for example, such as working long hours at a mind-numbing job in order to pay for their children's education: that's love.

[Carl G]

(((WHAT IS TRUE FRIENDSHIP?)))

(((SOMEONE WHO WOULD TAKE A BULLET FOR YOU.)))(((SOMEONE WHO WOULD DROP YOU OFF AT YOUR CAR MECHANIC.))) (((SOMEONE WHO IS WILLING TO LISTEN.))) (((A BRIGHTLY COLORED MACAW WITH A SMARMY MOUTH AND DREAMY IDEAS.)))

(((HOW AM I DOING?)))

_____________________________

(((CARL)))

[Dan Rowden]

Sid,

First off, please don't bring your ((((()))) oddity to thread titles. It makes the place look insane.

Secondly, my answer to that question is here:

Spiritual Friends

[Renaissance]

THEY abuse the signs and you penalize me, eh? Carl is the one who made the place look "insane" and you chastise me, eh? Okay, I understand.

I wanted YOUR answer, friend

[guest_of_logic]

I wanted YOUR answer, friend

That is Dan's answer - he made that video - it's his voice speaking.

[Renaissance]

I wanted YOUR answer, friend

That is Dan's answer - he made that video - it's his voice speaking.

I intend to make a list of what you people say before I comment. I don't want a video I want concise answers that can be listed.

I'm not joking here. I really want to make a list of all the most important things YOU PEOPLE feel constitutes true friendship before I comment.

Thanks

[Dan Rowden]

I don't do lists.

Someone once remarked that friends are "thieves of time". I would go a step further and say that friends are thieves of mind. There is a world of difference between a true spiritual friend and a friend in the sense that such a thing is commonly understood. A true spiritual friend is also your greatest enemy. He is a constant reminder of the path to which you have dedicated yourself; he is a constant reminder of your imperfection and of the egotism that remains in your character. He is a gnat that buzzes around your head and gives you no peace. He is the conscience that presents itself when your own fails.

Conventional friendships exist for one purpose only - to boost one's ego. This is the sole reason one has "friends". A friend is someone who validates us, who indicates to us that we are valued - a person of worth and substance. How many people have friends that constantly tell us we are a worthless piece of shit? We may have spouses that do that but that's another story altogether.

How can you have friends! You who is supposedly on the path to enlightenment and who claims to be an individual? How can the true individual have friends? The spiritual man is a solitary being by definition. Friendship is an anathema to him. Worldly friendships make us stronger in ego. They reinforce the false idea of our existence and because of this friends are always at each other's beck and call. Our connection to them is 100% about egotistical need. We choose our friends precisely on the basis of who best satisfies those needs. This point alone proves the wholly egotistical nature of conventional friendship.

The spiritual friend is one whose only concern is wisdom. He is not at all interested in your ego, other than in the sense of wanting to destroy it. Such a friend works to make us weaker in ego and thereby more able to make room in our hearts and minds for God. Most people would not even begin to think of such a one as a "friend". They would regard him as one who seeks to bring you down, to bring to ruination your self esteem - and they'd be right! A spiritual friend is indeed one who seeks to facilitate your down-going. But that is exactly what makes him a true friend in spirit. That downgoing is what makes us ripe for God in our lives. Most people are far too strong for God. They have so many friends to give them support in their hours of need; so many friends to bring concretion to their egotistical delusions; so many friends to validate them - how could there possibly be room for God?! What possible need could there be for such a thing? What need could one have for Truth when there are so many friends willing and able to tell us the most exquisite lies!

Ultimately, the truth seeker need have only one friend - his own reason. However, if others should cross our paths, be certain that those with whom we consort are of good character - good enough character to not be willing to lie to us.

[Renaissance]

I'm the one who intends to make the list

And I would appreciate it if you people don't get too esoteric about it

Please be down to Earth and practical

I don't intend to put "thieves of time" or "thieves of mind" on the list

Thanks

[Carl G]

You people? What does that make you, then, a god?

Okay, here's my list:

Friendship is:

1. Taking a bullet for someone.

2. Not ratting someone out to the Fascists.

3. Driving someone to their auto mechanic, to pick up the car.

4. The ability and willingness to listen.

5. Taking on the persona of a Macaw, in order to help them spiritually.

6. Tolerance, like, if someone loves the book "The Secret" and you think it is simplistic tripe.

7. Willingness to share inspiration, like, if someone has received a special message from Spirit while doing underwater Tai Chi in a powerful mountain stream in Hawaii, and they post it on the Internet.

8. Willingness to share knowledge, like if someone comes across, oh, let's say a thousand interesting links online...

9. Willingness to share material goods, like giving someone one's last piece of chewing gum.

10. Hatred, for without this there can be no love.

[Renaissance]

Look, I've joked around on other threads, but I'm not joking around here. I feel this is a very important thread and I intend to make a concise list of the most important things you all agree constitute true friendship. After I feel the bulk of you all agree on those points I will make my comment.

Thanks for participating

[Renaissance]

You people? What does that make you, then, a god?

Okay, here's my list:

Friendship is:

1. Taking a bullet for someone.

2. Not ratting someone out to the Fascists.

3. Driving someone to their auto mechanic, to pick up the car.

4. The ability and willingness to listen.

5. Taking on the persona of a Macaw, in order to help them spiritually.

6. Tolerance, like, if someone loves the book "The Secret" and you think it is simplistic tripe.

7. Willingness to share inspiration, like, if someone has received a special message from Spirit while doing underwater Tai Chi in a powerful mountain stream in Hawaii, and they post it on the Internet.

8. Willingness to share knowledge, like if someone comes across, oh, let's say a thousand interesting links online...

9. Willingness to share material goods, like giving someone one's last piece of chewing gum.

10. Hatred, for without this there can be no love.

It seems to me that a paid bodyguard could do all those things without actually being a true friend. Think about it

[Carl G]

Okay, I've thought about it. And I do not agree with your inference. I say the qualities of friendship are not exclusive, nor are the qualities of an employee.

[Renaissance]

Okay, I've thought about it. And I do not agree with your inference. I say the qualities of friendship are not exclusive, nor are the qualities of an employee.

I don't quite understand you here. Are you saying that a paid bodyguard could not meet all your requirements of friendship without actually being a true friend?

I've created many threads in my Internet life, but I truly feel this is one of the most important threads I have ever created. If you really think about it I'm sure you would agree that a true friend is extremely valuable and rare in the modern age. In a society of hypocrite phonies who think nothing much of screwing you over to get ahead a true, lifelong friend is rather priceless, don't you think?

[brokenhead]

You people? What does that make you, then, a god?

Okay, here's my list:

Friendship is:

1. Taking a bullet for someone.

2. Not ratting someone out to the Fascists.

3. Driving someone to their auto mechanic, to pick up the car.

4. The ability and willingness to listen.

5. Taking on the persona of a Macaw, in order to help them spiritually.

6. Tolerance, like, if someone loves the book "The Secret" and you think it is simplistic tripe.

7. Willingness to share inspiration, like, if someone has received a special message from Spirit while doing underwater Tai Chi in a powerful mountain stream in Hawaii, and they post it on the Internet.

8. Willingness to share knowledge, like if someone comes across, oh, let's say a thousand interesting links online...

9. Willingness to share material goods, like giving someone one's last piece of chewing gum.

10. Hatred, for without this there can be no love.

It seems to me that a paid bodyguard could do all those things without actually being a true friend. Think about it

Hey Renny - what is it with all the lists? You ask for a list and the second someone gives you a one, you proceed to shoot it down. What's your point?

See - Carl came up with a perfectly good list. I particularly like number 6. If you and I were friends, I would not have told you the truth about what I feel the book The Secret is worth. I would have been tolerant of your point of view, even though I find it lacks substance - I would have, as Dan points out - stroked your ego.

The truth is I do not know you and so I do not feel compelled to bend the truth as I see it. In social situations, of course, I do not necessarily behave this way. When I think the situation calls for being politically correct, I usually remain silent, because despite years of sincere effort, I realize this is not destined to be one of my strengths.

GF, on the other hand, is a public forum - one dedicated to the truth, no less. Therefore when you brought up The Secret franchise I felt constrained to tell the truth. I had no desire or intent to hurt your feelings or anyone else's. I simply don't care. But I do confess that the more petulant you became over hearing the truth, the more pleasing the exchange has been for me.

[Renaissance]

I'm asking what I feel is a valid question:

Couldn't a paid bodyguard meet all those requirements without being a true friend?

"If you and I were friends, I would not have told you the truth about what I feel the book The Secret is worth."

So, if you were my true friend you would have lied to me? Really. How interesting. I guess being a liar should be on the list of requirements for being a true friend.

[Shahrazad]

You people? What does that make you, then, a god?

That is what (racist?) white people like to call black people.

Here is my definition of a friend:

(1) Someone in whose presence you can go on thinking out loud. With everyone else you have to filter your words.

(2) Someone who knows all your secrets and weaknesses, and still thinks you're ok.

(3) Someone who does not try to change you into something you are not, and don't even want to be.

(4) Someone who you can leave your kids with while you leave the country, or your pet if you don't have kids.

By the way Sid, a mother would do all the things in Carl's list, and she is not considered a friend of her offspring.

[Renaissance]

"GF, on the other hand, is a public forum - one dedicated to the truth, no less. Therefore when you brought up The Secret franchise I felt constrained to tell the truth. I had no desire or intent to hurt your feelings or anyone else's. I simply don't care. But I do confess that the more petulant you became over hearing the truth, the more pleasing the exchange has been for me."

MY RESPONSE: Yes indeed. A low quality person would indeed take that kind of pleasure. Life is a drag because there are TOO MANY people, like you, who take pleasure in causing misery.

1) Never make friends with low quality people who enjoy making people miserable. If you do you will most certainly live to regret it!

The truth is you cannot come up with three main things you disagree with about The Secret philosophy because you are an idiot. You are like the Christians who put down the teachings of the Buddha without even reading them.

[Renaissance]

You people? What does that make you, then, a god?

That is what (racist?) white people like to call black people.

Here is my definition of a friend:

(1) Someone in whose presence you can go on thinking out loud. With everyone else you have to filter your words.

(2) Someone who knows all your secrets and weaknesses, and still thinks you're ok.

(3) Someone who does not try to change you into something you are not, and don't even want to be.

(4) Someone who you can leave your kids with while you leave the country, or your pet if you don't have kids.

By the way Sid, a mother would do all the things in Carl's list, and she is not considered a friend of her offspring.

Can such a person ACT as though they are your friend while secretly despising you out of jealousy? A person who dares not tell you what she actually thinks of you. A person who must lie in order to convince you she actually is your friend?

Someone like a paid servant?

[Shahrazad]

Someone can pretend to be my friend, but they wouldn't really be one.

[brokenhead]

"GF, on the other hand, is a public forum - one dedicated to the truth, no less. Therefore when you brought up The Secret franchise I felt constrained to tell the truth. I had no desire or intent to hurt your feelings or anyone else's. I simply don't care. But I do confess that the more petulant you became over hearing the truth, the more pleasing the exchange has been for me."

MY RESPONSE: Yes indeed. A low quality person would indeed take that kind of pleasure. Life is a drag because there are TOO MANY people, like you, who take pleasure in causing misery.

1) Never make friends with low quality people who enjoy making people miserable. If you do you will most certainly live to regret it!

The truth is you cannot come up with three main things you disagree with about The Secret philosophy because you are an idiot. You are like the Christians who put down the teachings of the Buddha without even reading them.

You are priceless. I am being critical of a book and a DVD. You are calling somebody names over a book and a DVD.

I cannot come up with three main things to disagree with about The Secret philosophy because it does not contain three things, and because it is not philosophy.

And there you go with the lists again. Hint - when a list has just one thing on it, you do not have to number that thing.

[brokenhead]

Someone in whose presence you can go on thinking out loud. With everyone else you have to filter your words.

I guess I don't have too many friends like that. I am more apt to think out loud here. I do not have many close friends, but that is because I do have - holy shit! - opinions.

[brokenhead]

Can such a person ACT as though they are your friend while secretly despising you out of jealousy?

Something tells me you shouldn't stay up late at night worrying about this.

[Animus]

"True Friendship"

A short phrase comprised of two words themselves constructed of several phonemes. "True" generally denotes a claim about reality who's description is accurate. "Friendship" is a state of co-operation between two individuals, such that both individuals desired ends are met. Whether these desired ends are Bar Crawling, Playing Cricket or seeking truth.

[guest_of_logic]

Can such a person ACT as though they are your friend while secretly despising you out of jealousy?

Oh, I see what you're getting at now. Well, yeah, a true friend necessarily and genuinely cares about you - I wrote that true friendship is a willingness to make sacrifices, and that's the reason that the friend is willing to make the sacrifice.