GENIUS FORUMS

What you don't realize is that euclidean geometry still holds, even in GR under certain conditions. Complete in the sense of being able to describe, scientificaly model all that we can currently measure, of course not. Euclidean geometry only holds as an approximation . In the same way E = mc^2 is ...

words to Diebert Euclidean geometry isn't used to describe the surface of a sphere. Yet, for some reason, travel from point A to point B on the Earth's surface is calculated using Euclidean geometry. Does this blow your mind? Just show me the definite proof that deductive logic applies to reality. ...

Let's see here. 1) Aggressive posturing without positive claims 2) Namedropping 3) Inability to confirm truths of basic logic while referencing advanced theories If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em... eh, Fujaro? If you could provide some indication that you know what you are talking about, so I...

You are on the way in asking me to make the point I am already making: there is no guarantee that reality conforms to the logic we can think up. Speak for yourself. This level of postmodern bullshit is as far away from the truth as those mystics that rail on and on about the terrors of scientism, o...

Yes, turning down euclidean geometry as an accurate description of reality. It's still accurately describing the reality of the room I'm in quite sufficiently, thank you very much :) What you don't realize is that euclidean geometry still holds, even in GR under certain conditions. Complete in the ...

[ So neither the wavefunction nor QED are identical to the electron. They are precise, quantitative conceptual tools that are used to describe electrons. And protons, and neutrons, and pions, well what have you. So are you destroying your own argument here? :) You said: "In the double slit exp...

on empirical grounds euclidean geometry is turned down in favor of non-euclidean geometry as described by GR. Turning down euclidean geometry? This is hardly worth commenting on. GR doesn't describe the non-euclidean geometry, this type of mathematics is used within GR. Yes, turning down euclidean ...

You're too funny. 'Uncertain' means that it can go either way, aint it? It is not an absolute statement. Just like falsifying a scientific statement. No, I was doing something different than showing that it could go either way. Instead, I assumed "no" and showed that it would be contradic...

are you absolutely certain that logical truths say anything absolute about the real world? Yes. It is quite easy to see why: if I answered no, I would be saying something absolute about reality, and would be contradicting myself. I guess, if you don't believe that contradictions are always false, y...

The current scientific view is that QM describes a highly deterministic universe. That is just not correct. QM definitely does not describe the usual notion of a deterministic universe in any way. It is a probablistic formalism, which is by definition non-deterministic. But as such, it is extremely...

are you absolutely certain that logical truths say anything absolute about the real world? It's not clear what you mean by the "real world", and I doubt that you are clear about it in your own mind. By "real world", I think you mean the empirical world , which is the world about...

Gödel's Theorem is valid within the narrow parameters it sets for itself, but it doesn't apply to pure logic. Well the parameters aren't that narrow really, for they are about every proof that can be written out on paper in a non- infinite sequence of statements that can be labeled to the natural n...

Fujaro wrote:The quantum thing goes even further than that Ryan. In the double slit experiment the same electron travels through both slits simultaneously! The identity has become a duality. No such thing! What is measured is the behavior of a wave function. It's still one identity! It's not behavi...

Fujaro: so, there's flaws in QM, and some scholars investigate it. That's not a problem with logic at all, nor is it a problem with philosophy. It's a problem with physics. The theory of QM has holes, and they have been well-documented by philosophers. One simple question Trevor: are you absolutely...

Fujaro wrote:I am disagreeing that humans at this moment have access to universal abolutes that hold in every realm But you're not supplying the reasoning yet. Universal absolutes hold in every realm by definition. No, when mathematicians say they have a universal absolute they mean that it is abso...

For Trevor and just before hitting the sack:
"Although today this question is of special interest to philosophers of physics, many physicists continue to show a strong interest in the subject."
Source: Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

Fujaro, This even applies to the law of self-identity. For you can posit that an electron is a particle. But quantum mechanics shows that an electron at the same time can be wavelike in nature. One could ask then, what has happened to this law of identity that states that nothing can be someting el...

For you can posit that an electron is a particle. But quantum mechanics shows that an electron at the same time can be wavelike in nature. One could ask then, what has happened to this law of identity that states that nothing can be someting else than itself? If you have a good advice for me here I...

Fujaro: "...that you can infer true knowledge about reality from logic alone." It's interesting that you haven't discovered yet what I was talking about here, perhaps it's just too simple and unassuming. I was talking about absolute knowledge, the nature of knowledge itself, not relative ...

Fujaro: why are you taking a scientist's advice on a philosophic issue? It is a flat-out Appeal to Authority . Einstein is quite clearly dealing with things outside of his range of specialization, and his claims here are no better than a bloke off the street. Logic can and does make positive claims...

Another great example of why the application of logic and mathematics to reality is not an a priori truth, is non-euclidean geometry. Indeed for a very long time it was thought that euclidean geometry with its axiomas is abolute and holds in reality. Its application to reality only was limited by th...

1+1=2 is really not that useful normally but in this case it suddenly became useful. And it's not the first time I see people failing to realize how it's a matter of definition, how the numbers logically refer to sets or categories and therefore a division. Nothing more than our mind is doing alrea...

In general though I really cannot take anyone serious who keeps arguing that A=A is not valid in some cases. It's a quick way to flush out deep seeded ignorance. Of course not. You hate new viewpoints that counter your religion. But anyone who does some thinking demands arguments for the applicabil...

Wise decision, Diebert. This guy/girl was an idiot-child from the word, "Go". With a wave of the hand, 'happy trails to you', Sir. PS - The misspelling of "criterion" (criteria) was telling. PPS - 'Tis no wonder that Ryan sucks up to you :-) PPS - All this gushing from Tomas, wh...

Fujaro, When you stated that adding two different fluids together somehow means 1+1 "not always holds", it should have been clear to me right away you just miss the basics. Nobody claimed a '1' is literaly existing, or even a "liter' or "water". Reality just doesn't work th...