GENIUS FORUMS

Kevin , Re: God being the cause of all actions sam: But what's its relevance? Kevin: We are speaking of causation, and God is the cause of all actions. So there must be no difference between actions that arise under a belief in causation versus those that arise under a belief in free will. If it's ...

Kevin , sam: If everyone's actions are God's actions, why bring God into it? Kevin: Because truth is important. But what's its relevance? Kevin: The wise person, who understands causation, acts wisely and their actions have good effects. By contrast, the foolish person, who believes in free agency,...

broken,

I agree there is nothing mysterious about consciousness.

What would be mysterious to you?

maestro , sam: If you don't understand why someone might say, "why am I me?" then you really have no basis to deny their experience. maestro: For example the digital camera's ccd array also responds to changes in environment, is it having experiences? Suppose the computer detects these ch...

Kevin , sam: So if God's actions can be deluded, why the reference to God at all? Kevin: Because the truth of causation is the most important truth of all. You missed the point. If everyone's actions are God's actions, why bring God into it? Why not simply talk about what those actions are rather t...

broken , I agree there is nothing mysterious about consciousness. What would be mysterious to you? maestro , DH: Why am I me? maestro: Of course there is no me. The me is a part of language and an illusionary construct, there is no me. This is like saying after you wake up from a dream, there is no...

Kevin , sam: You don't lie, you don't throw tantrums. This is surrender to you? Kevin: Along with countless other deluded things you don't do when you've surrendered to truth. Let's put aside what "surrender to truth" implies for the moment. Let's stick with causation since for you it is ...

Kevin , sam: I asked you before what constitutes "surrender to truth". Kevin: This has been answered for you many times. It means living truthfully as opposed to living ignorantly. It means not lying, not indulging in emotions, etc. All these things are actions, since they are acted out. ...

Kevin , David is advocating surrender to truth. This has been explained to you but you have a mental block which prevents you from understanding it. Truth is not an intellectual artifact. I asked you before what constitutes "surrender to truth". You had no answer. Until you give an answer...

Addressing the question of free will is important because it forces one to draw the reality of causality into the inner recesses of one’s being. Instead of keeping causality at a safe distance in the imagination and treating it as though it were a dry academic theory, one needs to let it soak into ...

sam: David does what he wants, calls it causation. David: David wants truth. Therefore he recognizes causation. Let me try this from a different angle. Someone believes in free will, another in causation. Do they act the same? If their actions are the same, what is the utility of the causation beli...

No disparagement. Disagreement noted. The problem called ego not like. It protests. Thinks it being disparaged. Ego protests. Thinks it is pure as driven snow. David: Laird caused. Laird caused to be ignorant. If Laird caused to be no longer ignorant, then Laird will no longer be ignorant. sam: Ass...

mikiel,

I appreciate the explanation. It's helpful to know that you had glimpses prior to your full awakening. Also that the expression itself is evolving. Enlightenment as just the beginning is a much more vibrant and dynamic notion than enlightenment as a goal.

Alex,

Thanks for that tutorial on shamanism. It's quite enlightening.

mikiel , There may be "steps to this cleansing" (as in "steps to enlightenment"), but I'm not talking about relative degrees of seening more clearly "through the egoic filters" (as in "self-improvement," seeking a "new, improved self") but the compl...

David , Let's see if I can put this in a language that you can understand: Tree caused. Tree ignorant. Buddha caused. Buddha not ignorant. David caused. David can see tree ignorant and Buddha not ignorant. Sam caused. Sam believe tree and Buddha must be same ignorant, if both are caused. David caus...

David , sam: "no longer being bound by forms" - what the hell is this? Even the enlightened have a body, thoughts and feelings. David: This is a key stage before enlightenment can be realized - that is, knowing how to become free of all forms by utilizing the understanding of the formless...

This is like someone watching a movie and saying, "Look at the way that each scene follows another, often quite abruptly and differently. Such jumping about doesn't occur in the real world, and I can't see anything in the movie which could cause such jumping about. Therefore, it follows that e...

Diebert , This is too tempting to let pass, some dream analysis! To me it seems obvious what caused the dream elements: money is about materialism and form, the love and entanglement with it, even to the degree of letting it become a spirituality - or spirituality can become a form of money - coina...

David , David: Everybody makes judgments, including yourself. Including the Buddha. Including Adya. It is a natural function of the mind. sam: The question is, is the judgment about evidence or is it about one's own internal processes? Is it prompted by dispassion or disagreement? Is the judgment i...

David , David: I've never denied the need to surrender to the truth, and indeed I specifically stated in the debate that it was the only form of surrender I recognized. sam: This is completely bogus as I pointed out to Toast. Surrender to truth is meaningless without describing some action it entai...

Toast,

Obviously we don't understand each other's positions but you want to make that my problem. Fine. Enjoy yourself.

Wait, I overlooked a post where some reason is actually introduced. Who woulda thunk? When a farmer asks, "Why isn't that tree producing any fruit?" and concludes, upon investigation, that it is infected with a bacterial disease, is he blaming the tree? No, he is simply assessing its condi...

Wow, the babies are really rocking the playpen! They got their rattles out and are letting momma know they ain't happy! lol ... Where to start? Well, I won't be arguing Jesus. David certainly ain't Jesus! lol ... Diebert , So, what I want to say is not that David is the King of the Jews, the larger ...

Diebert , sam: ... unless David actually wants to say, "people I disparage are unconscious so I can say whatever I want about them without blaming them." Diebert: Not just whatever but things like "fear of truth", "ceiling being formed", "lack of spiritual ambitio...