GENIUS FORUMS

Diebert,

If you had said it like that in the first place, I would never have objected. You haven't judged him here but just said what you think. There's a big difference and I hope you can appreciate it.

Diebert , That's not just a judgment but a false one since you're here conflating moral judgment and condemnation. Oh please. Did you read the thread? This all began with Ryan. Are you saying his moral judgments of others have nothing to do with condemnation? I tried to explain how they substantial...

Cory , sam: If someone is caused to perform a certain action, by what reasoning do you subject that person to moral judgment when there is no personal will behind the action? Cory: In the same way a farmer decides he ought to chop down a diseased tree, a teacher decides he ought to teach an ignoran...

Diebert , sam: If you are saying that it requires a moral judgment to say, "I don't want to harm others," fine. That isn't the kind of judgment being discussed and I think you know that. You get to choose your values. You don't get to impose them. Diebert: Your idea of a moral judgment se...

Diebert , Diebert: Here's Mikiel's strategy over the years as far as I could read it: -"facilitated several seminars on intentional community" -locally publishing "essays on intentional community" -organizing "meditation and dialogue circles as an awakened teacher" -th...

Carl , sam: Surrender ... Carl: ...is an agenda. Depends on whether one is doing it for some other purpose, like to become enlightened. sam: ... is about letting go of strategy. Carl: That is a strategy. It can be, sure. It can also be spontaneous. sam: Trying to behave in a selfless manner is kind...

Diebert , sam: His approach was not to make a strategy for creating a community. The egoless state does not follow strategies but prajna , the heart-wisdom. Diebert: Here's Mikiel's strategy over the years as far as I could read it: -"facilitated several seminars on intentional community"...

Ryan , sam: There are utilitarian consequences of locking up a public threat. Whether someone who harms others deserves to be labeled as "bad" is a moral judgment. Ryan: This doesn’t make any sense to me. Utilitarians don’t just analyze all the consequences without taking action, action i...

Diebert , sam: The ego however requires constant feeding to keep up appearances. It likes to know where it stands in relation to others. Thus it wields its judgments and measures accordingly. Diebert: It's not about liking, it is what it does and it needs to happen like that by its very definition ...

BM , Celibacy is the decision to be detached from sex and all the trappings of the feminine. If that is your belief, then you should act on it. The problem is asserting that everyone should be governed by your belief. It is also your belief that detachment is represented by a certain kind of action...

broken , I agree that egoic strategies can never be selfless, sam. This is implicit in the term "egoic." You go on to imply that no strategy can be selfless by stating "the egoless state does not follow strategies." Therefore, is it not unreasonable to conclude that all strategi...

Cory , Cory: Why should a person deal with consequences? Why not just sit back and let them happen? sam: That's up to you. Cory: I know, that's why I want to hear what you have to say. I want to know myself better. So go ahead, answer the question please. You know, I find it highly ironic that you ...

Diebert , But the bug is about a perceived slamming of all contributions of the thread as "egoistic strategies" and as such laying out a "selfless" approach, justifying that so far by outlining some great luck I think his point was that egoic strategies, however well-intentioned...

Cory Duchesne wrote:Why should a person deal with consequences? Why not just sit back and let them happen?

That's up to you.

Cory , sam: There are utilitarian consequences of locking up a public threat. Cory: Recognizing the fact that there are consequences is a utilitarian judgment. Deciding how one ought to deal with the potential consequences is a moral judgment. However you want to slice and dice it, you don't need t...

Cory , sam: That isn't a moral judgment, it is a utilitarian one. It is utilitarian to lock up someone who harms others, isn't it? Cory: Moral Judgment always involves an ought. (We ought to put the rapist behind bars) A utilitarian judgment only involves what is. (fertilizer X works better than fe...

brad , sam: Make all the utilitarian judgments you want, just don't moralize about them to others. brad: What if I judge moralizing to have utility? Then show the utility. Ryan , brad: What if I judge moralizing to have utility? Ryan: Exactly so. Sam doesn’t realize that judging behavior as moral o...

mikiel: It doesn't take a "genius" to see the perfect synchronicity in this situation. Diebert: Sure, such things happen all the time. Another guy I knew won the lottery and thanked Allah. Get off your high horse and stop thinking it's a special sign proving you have done something ego-le...

Diebert , sam: As long as one is identified with the ego and such an ego requires hierarchical standards by which its "superiority" can be mearsured, sure, judging others will appear to be a reasonable thing to do. Diebert: The ego doesn't need anything in any realistic sense. We're not t...

BM , BM: Celibacy is necessary to reach enlightenment. sam: I don't think so. Enlightenment is about who you are, not whether you are celibate or not. BM: Do you think that detachment is necessary for enlightenment? sam: Of course but detachment is an attitude, not an action. BM: You're missing the...

Diebert , sam: You didn't like what he posted, fine. But then you try to make him wrong for that. Why not just say you didn't like it because of x, y or z instead of trying to make it about his supposed hyprocrisy? You make up some character flaw and try to pin it on him when all he was doing was d...

Ryan , sam: Wisdom doesn't require moral judgment of others. Confidence comes from knowing oneself, cowardice comes from denigrating others. Ryan: Okay, so it is acceptable to judge yourself? Acceptable? Is it acceptable to beat yourself on the head with a hammer? I guess so but why would you want ...

Diebert , sam: The ego loves [moral judgments] and uses them to separate itself from and elevate itself over others. Diebert: Ego is what ego does and certainly a healthy ego as figurative artifact of identifying and distinguishing, cannot help but to separate, judge morally and believe to excel, t...

Ryan , sam: Here you are judging everyone again. Do you really think condescencion and arrogance is what helping others is about? Ryan: Why do you believe judging others is somehow bad? Moral judgments are about superiority. The ego loves them and uses them to separate itself from and elevate itsel...

Diebert , sam: I don't see a problem with him talking about his experience. He never said that suing someone is the way to become self-supporting which is what you are implying. He was just giving us some background on his center. Diebert: But what you get when you boil down the post is exactly wha...